No Risk It, No Biscuit - Bruce Arians, Super Bowl Winning NFL Head Coach

Super Bowl winning and legendary NFL coach Bruce Arians offers a leadership lesson that reaches far beyond football. He explains his famous "No Risk It, No Biscuit" mindset and shows why the best leaders take smart chances instead of playing scared. He shares memorable stories about trusting instinct without ignoring data, preparing teams for pressure, and creating a culture where people can fail, learn, and grow. 

In this conversation with ReliaQuest mental performance coach Derin McMains, you'll also hear Bruce discuss:

• Differences in coaching rookies vs. veterans
• Promoting a culture of risk-taking
• Find a way mentality that led to a Super Bowl victory

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Transcript

NSD - Bruce Arians.txt
English (US)

00:00:01.120 — 00:02:19.609 · Speaker 1
ReliaQuest mental performance coach Derin McMains interviews top performers across multiple industries to unpack their mindset and their strategies that has helped them dominate in their arena so you can dominate in yours. Welcome to No Show Dogs powered by request. Hey, welcome back to the No Show Dogs podcast powered by ReliaQuest.

And I'm fired up because we got the one and only Super Bowl winning coach in NFL legend Bruce Arians joining us today. I'm telling you, you guys are in for a treat. I'm just telling you, he's one of the most insightful and colorful coaches the game of American football has ever known. He's won three Super Bowls, two as an assistant and one as a head coach when he led the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to victory in Super Bowl 55.

Now we caught up with him while he was doing some work at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers National Coaching Academy. You guys, I'm telling you, this coaching academy is probably one of the coolest things out there for football coaches. It was established to create new pathways for coaches from all over the world that are seeking the opportunity to work in the NFL.

The Glazer family, who who own the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, they created this academy as part of their long standing commitment to helping developing leaders both on and off the field. And each year, 25 finalists are selected to come to Tampa for a week long immersive academy at the team's training facility to learn from some of the best in the game, and Bruce Arians is one of them.

But look, you don't have to be a football coach to learn from this coaching legend. You don't even have to work in sports. What Bruce shares today is helpful in any arena that demands high performance and risk taking. And let me just share with you just one thing right here at the top that I took away that that I just really don't want you to miss.

He's widely regarded as one of the best developers of quarterbacks of all time. Shoot, his nickname is even the Quarterback Whisperer. And he revealed that the foundation of coaching and development is built on trust and candor. You'll hear him say this specifically. He said this. You have to build a relationship on trust.

And when I ask you about why did the ball go there? Don't tell me what you think I want to hear. Tell me why you actually did it. And then we can have a dialog


00:02:21.090 — 00:03:53.080 · Speaker 1
development. You guys, I'm telling you, is a two way street. It's a two way street. If there can't be an honest dialog between the coach and the player or the leader and the employee, development will never happen. Arians standard for developing talent is honesty. He wants the truth about why a decision was made, not a politically safe answer.

And so, leaders for you, first, you've got to make it okay to have a truthful conversation after mistakes are made. Ask questions. Seek understanding. Let them finish their sentences. As Josh Cox said in our Battlefields in Ball Fields episode, don't get angry. Get curious. You can't help them see things differently if you don't know what they saw originally.

You can't help them think about the problem differently if you don't know how they're thinking about it now, instead of criticizing them for where they are. Coach them on the path going forward. And for you employees that are sharing your thoughts with your leader after a mistake. Look, your job is not to manage their reaction with some sort of word salad.

No, your job is to tell the truth. If you don't, their coaching will break down and your development will stall. And I can guarantee you you will make that same mistake again. Be honest about what you saw or heard. Be honest with why you made that decision and you chose that action. Truth and candor. They are the foundation for coaching and development and it's a two way street.

Now with that, let's jump into this conversation with Super Bowl winning coach and NFL legend Bruce Arians. Hey coach welcome to No Show Dogs.


00:03:53.120 — 00:03:55.520 · Speaker 2
Great to be on brother. Great to be on. Good to see you, Mac.


00:03:55.830 — 00:04:07.510 · Speaker 1
All right. Hey, let's just jump right into this, man. Let's let's talk a little bit about the National Coaching Academy. What do you love most about going down to Tampa and just pouring into all these young coaches?


00:04:07.750 — 00:04:45.590 · Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it's a great opportunity. I thought it was a fantastic idea by Darcy Kassovitz. Glazer. And when we wanted to start it, we started out in Arizona with the Bill Bidwill Fellowship, bringing back one former player who thought he might want to coach, pay him 50 grand to see if he and his wife wanted him to coach.

We had a couple guys that really wanted a coach, wife said, no way, we're not doing this. And great point. This. This is a great opportunity to meet 25 different men and women from everywhere Canada, England, everywhere. They've done a great job of running this program now and then top bringing the top five back and hopefully maybe hiring one of those out of that group each year.


00:04:46.350 — 00:05:11.010 · Speaker 1
Yeah, it's funny you bring up such a great point around, hey, make sure you like coaching, but also make sure your spouse and right your wife makes sure she's okay with it. We have Kyle Whittingham on here a couple of years ago. You know who's now the new head coach at University of Michigan. And this is when he was obviously at Utah.

And he said, hey there. There are two types of coaches. Weis there, great ones and X's brother.


00:05:11.250 — 00:05:12.290 · Speaker 2
There's no other kind.


00:05:12.850 — 00:05:14.810 · Speaker 1
There are no other guys. Perfect.


00:05:15.210 — 00:05:23.890 · Speaker 2
I was very fortunate I had I had one that lasted from. We're going to celebrate our 55th wedding anniversary in a couple of weeks. And so, yeah, I've only moved here. I only moved here 20 times.


00:05:24.690 — 00:05:53.080 · Speaker 1
That's it. That's great. I mean, that's what it takes, right? Being a performer at the highest levels, whether that's coach or an athlete. It is a lifestyle. It really is. And and and if your spouse can understand that my my wife and I are 25th wedding anniversary is coming up. And that's funny, but thank you.

Yeah. Being in being in the minor leagues for as long as I was, you can imagine we moved a lot. It was I think we counted a few years back. It was like 52 times, so. And we're still married. So there you.


00:05:53.080 — 00:06:05.760 · Speaker 2
Go. My son got real lucky. Went to one high school, won two state championships, got a scholarship. My daughter caught the other. And ninth grade move. 10th grade move. 11th grade move. I moved 12th grade. So it's like she got to bed for years.


00:06:06.720 — 00:06:36.520 · Speaker 1
I hear you, I hear you. I have two kids as well, and and my my, my son caught all the moves. He's older. And then my daughter was the one that, you know, it's been we've been a little bit more stable. So it's been interesting to see how different they view the world based on their experiences. That's for certain.

One more thing around the National Coaching Academy. If they could only get one thing from me because I know you get to spend a lot of time with them, but if if those 25 coaches or those five finalists, if they could only say like one thing about you, like, like, what do you want them to get from you and your career?


00:06:37.360 — 00:07:16.470 · Speaker 2
I think that for me, family comes first. I had this opportunity to work for a great coach, but we never left the office. I mean, we were there till midnight and then you could go run 8 or 10 miles and get a workout in And actually my son was playing junior high football at the time and I would ride over and watch it, but I dressed out like I was going running, come back, throw water on myself and act like I ran eight miles and go see him play.

And I swore if I ever got the platform, no coach would ever miss a recital, a game of anything with their children, because you never get that time back. The work is never going to leave. But the kids, man, they grow so fast and you don't get that time back.


00:07:17.590 — 00:07:32.830 · Speaker 1
That's hilarious. I was there. Were they ever on to you? I mean, like like what was like, if they're thinking, hey, Bruce is out running 8 to 10 miles, he's coming back and he's pouring sweat. At one point, we feel like he should be losing some weight. Has there ever been that thought?


00:07:33.550 — 00:07:46.590 · Speaker 2
I actually it was like a double workout. I said, you know, I'm getting in the gym and all that stuff first and then and then act like I went jogging somewhere. And. But the offensive coordinator, he had my back and and the offensive line coach they covered for me.


00:07:47.190 — 00:08:03.090 · Speaker 1
That's brilliant. That's brilliant I love it. Hey, let's talk about you as a coach in your career. You've got this philosophy. Everybody knows it really, really widely known. And it's called no risk it no biscuit. What does it actually mean and where did it come from?


00:08:03.730 — 00:08:42.770 · Speaker 2
It actually came from a poem. One of my high school coaches put the poem If by Rudyard Kipling in our playbook. And, and that thing just stuck with me about not being afraid to throw your hat in the ring and trying. Don't stand on the sideline and watch. Get in there. And if you fail, at least you tried, because you're not going to learn anything from not trying anything.

And it just it kind of stuck with me. And when I played golf, I hit a lot in the water. But I'm going to go for that great shot, man. Tin Cup was one of the best movies ever. He said, Roy, they're never going to remember your part, but they're always going to remember 11. But that's that's just the that's just the way of life.

It's not just a football acumen. It's really the way you live life.


00:08:44.290 — 00:08:51.960 · Speaker 1
You're right, by the way. Tin Cup is such a great movie. It's so good. I was just thinking about. You're right. You just. Yeah. He's just a ball.


00:08:53.360 — 00:08:54.360 · Speaker 1
Just keep reaching for it.


00:08:54.360 — 00:08:57.560 · Speaker 2
I've been there a couple of times. Last week I had one of those episodes.


00:08:59.400 — 00:09:07.040 · Speaker 1
Oh, that's. That's so good. When you think about, you know, yourself as a coach and also, you know, leading a huge staff.


00:09:08.200 — 00:09:36.760 · Speaker 1
I think the best leaders are risk takers because they're willing to step out. They're willing to innovate, they're willing to prove unproven things. And that requires having this risk taking mentality. But there's also another side to that. There's like risk. There's very, uh, risky and reckless risk taking, I would call it.

So as a coach, how did you distinguish between this is a bold risk worth taking versus that was reckless like like did you have something that would differentiate between the two for you when you're making decisions?


00:09:36.760 — 00:10:47.700 · Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. I think so many people hide behind analytics now. All these cats going for it on fourth down. It's like, whoa, what are you doing dude. Get the three points. It's the playoffs. This if it's fourth and five or less inside the 50. Everybody analytics they go for it. I don't know who the hell wrote that book but when Don Shula or Bill Belichick right.

You know get the points or kick the ball down there. So I think sometimes that that to me is reckless. That's that's put your time if you don't want to put your team in oh shit moments. I think back at Detroit in San Francisco a couple years ago and that's in the championship game. And I love Dan Campbell. Don't get me wrong, I think he's one hell of a ball coach, but when he he went for it with a two score lead.

Don't make it now. It's a one score lead. Go for it. Don't make it now. It's a tie boat now. We're in ocean now. Oh, can we keep the lead? Can we? And we. Now we're holding our breath. When we were cruising. Just kicked the damn field goal over three scores. If you kicked three field goals, you probably go win that game, go to Super Bowl.

So to me, there's a very, very fine line. Today's football game especially in NFL with analytics and this this go for it mentality go for two mentality. Because again I don't know who the hell wrote that book.


00:10:49.940 — 00:11:40.420 · Speaker 1
Obviously, I've been in baseball for a long time. I've been in professional baseball for 26 years. And and so I've lived through this. When analytics really came big on the scene and call it 20, 1314 and then everyone over indexed on it, and it was all analytics. People just stop using their eyes, stop using their instincts to stop using the feel of a game and the momentum of a game and how that can how that can turn.

And they just looked at this book and they looked at this number and they just said, this is the right thing. Now, obviously baseball's I think, self-correcting. There's a few managers that I still think lean really heavily on it because they probably don't trust themselves for their experience. But for the large part, it feels like the NFL is kind of there.

Would you say where it's like, hey, we got all this new information. Just because you can measure it doesn't mean it's important, right? But that's kind of there where they just get it and just throw it against the wall and just trust that too much.


00:11:40.620 — 00:12:09.680 · Speaker 2
The computers don't run the game. Your gut does. And your brain and Joe Madden, who's a dear friend. We talk about the analytic stuff in baseball. I mean, I know I can't hit a curveball and put a curveball pitcher in there. That's easy stuff, I know. Backman against the Dodgers in the rays when they pulled Blake Snell in the World Series they couldn't touch him.

And they put the fastball guy. Boom bam there go two home runs or whatever it was. And and the rays lose. But they live and die. But but the rays do such a great job with it and their whole organization.


00:12:09.760 — 00:12:12.920 · Speaker 1
That's so true. It is so hard to.


00:12:14.400 — 00:12:44.470 · Speaker 1
And I think that's the art of leadership. Right. Is having a good feel of your staff trusting the people around you, knowing your guys, knowing your girls, knowing everybody who's there and and who can handle that. Because you're right. Like, at least I'll speak for baseball when a guy's cruising out there and analytics tells you, hey, don't go the don't go the third time through the lineup, which is something that we hear pretty consistently.

Yeah, don't go too well. I can tell you there's a psychological lift when you're on the other side. You're like, oh, good. Snell's out of the game, right? So you have you have belief again. You're like, yeah, we got him. We got him out of the game.


00:12:44.550 — 00:13:10.230 · Speaker 2
No, I don't think anybody was happier than Mookie Betts because he couldn't touch him in that game. And he got the fastball guy. Exactly. The guy was looking for. And I think the same thing is creeping into the NFL. Why do you want me to go for it on fourth down? We can't block that guy. Our right guard can't block that guy or our tight end.

Cam, lock that guy. And but there are times to say, hey, it's fourth and inches on our own 20 coming out. Go! Hey, we came to play today.


00:13:11.030 — 00:13:33.670 · Speaker 1
Is there something that that you're sensing or something that you're experiencing on the sideline where it's just that you're like, heck, analytics might even say there's a 1% chance he'll make it. But, you know, like, hey, let's prove something to ourselves right here. Like, like we got to do this. Is there something you're sensing or hearing on the sideline that you think this is the moment where I'm going to I'm going to test our team and we're going to we're going to grow in this moment.


00:13:33.710 — 00:14:13.780 · Speaker 2
Yeah. I think you can look in the faces and the eyes of the guys. You know, I used to call I was up in the press box for a while, so I got to be down on the sideline and see the guys eyes in their faces, man. And you can tell just looking around. It's time. It's time to show something. It's time to do something special.

And I think those are gut feelings. You sit up and you lay out that game plan on Thursday night in your nice, quiet office. But there's going to be those 4 or 5 calls in a game. They're just straight gut calls and and you gotta you gotta trust your instincts. You gotta trust your staff, too. You gotta have somebody you can lean on, and you got 25 seconds to collaborate real quick.

Say, what do you think? And let's do it. Yeah, but we gotta play. We really like. And let's run it.


00:14:13.820 — 00:14:15.780 · Speaker 1
Do you think head coaches are


00:14:17.340 — 00:14:36.580 · Speaker 1
less likely to take risk that go against analytics because of the scrutiny on the other side of like like I can explain away this decision to go, hey analytics said go for it. And then I don't have to answer the question versus it. Maybe coaches are scared to answer for their gut call. Do you think that's a part of it?

The scrutiny that comes on the other side?


00:14:36.620 — 00:15:29.200 · Speaker 2
I don't think there's any doubt. There's so many talking heads now, and all they want to talk about is analytics. And so I say, yeah, man. The books that you should have, he should have done this. He should have. If he kicked them, if he wouldn't have kicked that field going over well, hell if he didn't. What if he didn't make it?

I'd say there's there's always consequences to all of them. And what are the consequences? I go back to the championship game up in green Bay when we won the Super Bowl. It's fourth and four. I'm pissed as I call timeout. Wait, wait a minute. We got a ten point lead to where the worst thing Aaron Rodgers gets three out of this.

It's only like 25 seconds left. So um hell with it. Let's go for it. And Tom throws a bomb to Scotty Miller for a touchdown. And Byron left which made one of the greatest calls ever. But those are just those moments. I was probably going for it because I was pissed off because we didn't make it on third down and like, but you, you you'd call timeout and you think about it real quick like what's the worst thing that could happen?


00:15:29.360 — 00:15:31.119 · Speaker 1
Let's go. Yeah that's good


00:15:32.200 — 00:15:56.430 · Speaker 1
I imagine. I mean no risk it. No biscuit just flows out of you and it flows into the, the culture of your team And and on the other side of that though, is is always failure, right. There's always this because sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I had an old coach tell me one time because I was kind of moving into coaching.

He said, hey, do you know the difference between genius and stupidity? I said, no, he goes results.


00:15:56.750 — 00:15:59.110 · Speaker 2
Exactly, exactly, yeah.


00:15:59.150 — 00:16:24.350 · Speaker 1
And I said, oh yeah, you know. And he said, but he's like, you got to have a system. You gotta have something that you believe. So regardless of those results, you feel good about it at night, right? And I said, I get it, you know. But that's so true. Um, but with that being said, head coach leaders, they're creating a culture.

Right. And, and and you want that culture to take risks to have that same thing. No risk it. No biscuit that mentality. So how do you create that culture where people just aren't afraid to fail?


00:16:25.390 — 00:16:47.059 · Speaker 2
For us, we try to put them in as many pressure situations in practice as we possibly could, especially young quarterbacks. I wanted to see them fail. I want to put them in a situation. If you win this year, you're just one hell of a dude, man. All right, it's like 25 seconds. You got those 75 yards, you got one time out.

All right. What are you going? How are you going to get there? How are you going to get it done? And


00:16:48.340 — 00:18:20.080 · Speaker 2
Andrew Luck was my he was my poster child for that scenario because he could handle it. And we weren't training camp. And we're about halfway through. And he said, coach, you ever going to put us in a situation we could win? I said, let me tell you something. If you could win 50% of the ones I'm putting you in, you have done one hell of a job.

And I always go back to the story right before Chuck got sick that year with the Vikings and the Jags are playing. We're going to play the Vikings the next week. And Jags scored. 30s left and they got one time out. And you know they're going to kick it in the end zone. What's your plan. They're down by two. So that scenario came up.

And I had a young coach. His job was to go find the craziest scenarios before the half. And at the end of the game every week, and oh, what are we going to do in that scenario? And so we talked about it. We put a plan together And lo and behold, Vikings scored. 30s left. We got we got time out. And we actually had two timeouts.

And Andrew Luck's running on the field. I didn't call the play. He said I got it. He already knew what we had just walked through it and just practiced it. One completion, another completion, nailed down, kicked a field goal. Win the game. And it's like you have to put him in those situations. And Coach Bryant used to say, expect the unexpected all the time.

And you just got to put him in those high pressure situations to see how they handle it. And some can't, some really can't. And that's usually the deciding factor between these young quarterbacks being able to make it and not make it. Either they can't process the information fast enough or they can't hand handle success or failure.


00:18:22.440 — 00:18:42.910 · Speaker 1
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00:18:45.350 — 00:18:54.350 · Speaker 1
When do you. When do you see that a guy, quote unquote, can or can't? Do you see that in practice first, or do you really have to get him into the game and go, oh,


00:18:55.550 — 00:18:58.030 · Speaker 1
he's not who I thought I was who? He's not who? I thought.


00:18:58.270 — 00:20:02.580 · Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it starts in practice. You can see it, know situations and other guys thrive on it. Yeah, yeah. Give me the ball. I want the ball. And that's that's the guy you want handling it for you. And yeah, that picture that. Give me the ball I'm going in the ninth. I'm striking them all out. And it's not like oh what do you think I should throw I think I should throw my slider I think no, no dude, I'm just I'm going to come out my fan your ass for, for good measure.

And the same thing with those quarterbacks, man. They'll have that look on their face and practice like I don't think this guy's got it. And then you get him in preseason game. Same thing shows up. Regular season game. I've had a couple quarterbacks who are the best seven on seven quarterbacks. You. They would never have an incompletion in seven on seven.

As soon as that pass rush came in. They ran an 87. How are we going to block that? I said. Who gives us? What was the coverage? You're not supposed to be watching the damn line stunts. It's like they can't handle the rush. But they can't. They can't. They feel it all the time, so they're feeling pressure instead of applying.

I want to apply pressure all the time.


00:20:03.260 — 00:20:44.560 · Speaker 1
Yeah, that's that's good. We had I mean Jon Gruden really well we had him a while back and he said that. He said you're either applying pressure or you're feeling pressure that that really it. And I don't know if you gave it to him or you guys just got it over each other. But it's just funny. I just I just heard that about a month ago from him.

So, uh. Absolutely true. You've been mentioned quarterbacks. You are known as the quarterback whisperer. And because you've coached some of the greatest to have ever stepped on the field, you obviously gave him a lot of freedom. But how did you know when? I think you kind of answered it, but I'd love to hear you just talk a little bit more about it.

Like, how did you know when they had earned the right to take those risks that you needed them to take to help the team be successful?


00:20:44.760 — 00:21:34.430 · Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it all starts with your relationship. You have to build a relationship on trust. And when I asked you about why did the ball go there? Don't tell me what you think I want to hear. Tell me why you. Why you actually did it. And then we can have a dialog and say. I always thought we could save Jameis Winston because he was so talented.

Threw for 5000 yards and 36 touchdowns. That's a historic year. Yeah. But those 30 interceptions in the last two weeks, those last three interceptions were the ones like gosh I love this kid. Nobody works harder. I had him in the 10th grade on a football camp and it's like, well, we're gonna have to look behind door number two just in case.

Not knowing that's going to be Tom Brady. But yeah, but that's the scenario because Jameis was so talented he thought he could throw it through a pigeonhole every single time.


00:21:34.950 — 00:21:41.310 · Speaker 1
Which makes me think, like, how do you coach? Like, keeping someone's confidence high? Like, we need you to take a risk versus this


00:21:42.350 — 00:21:55.990 · Speaker 1
almost a little bit of irrational confidence that kind of puts your team in a tough spot. Like have you had success coaching guys through that where it's like, hey, I need you to maintain your high level confidence, but that's probably not the best time to make that throw or the best situation.


00:21:56.030 — 00:22:55.420 · Speaker 2
Yeah, I think some guys are so conservative. Even Tom Tom came out of Bill's situation in New England where they were pretty conservative football team going to win on defense. You got to run the ball and draw and then Brady would win it for him. For me, it was like, hey, we got a minute left. Two time outs. Yeah, we got 80 yards to go at the end of the half.

We're going to go get points man I know we got a six point lead, but we're going to and we're getting the ball back. Let's let's let's go get a double score. And so it's a little bit different for him in our relationship that one year the first year of of learning no risk. Get no biscuit. You got to check down and you got a first down.

But let Mike Evans one on one for a touchdown. Mm. No it's third and two. But let's don't miss those touchdowns. Let's take that shot. That that's a smart shot. All right. Those are the things when we have the matchup that you gameplan all week for. And you play to just get the first down and miss the jump play.

To me that's that's bad ball.


00:22:56.660 — 00:22:57.980 · Speaker 3
Got you got you.


00:22:58.020 — 00:23:07.740 · Speaker 1
I, I read a great story in in Peyton Manning's rookie year where he had thrown a few interceptions. He was pretty rattled. And essentially he comes to you and he wants you to take him out of the game.


00:23:08.780 — 00:23:12.300 · Speaker 1
How did you respond and why did you respond that way?


00:23:12.780 — 00:24:11.719 · Speaker 2
Hell no man, we got we got eight more minutes to go. We got a lot of shit we can learn in this game. We're going to go two minutes and let's see if we can get a couple of touchdowns on the board and finished on a positive note. And he did. He took us down the field a couple of times, and they were playing soft zones and he was taking it down.

He had Marshall Faulk to check it down to And let's learn from this man. This is this is your first year, Eli love. When I did the Manning cast a couple of years ago, he said, would you rather be introduced to Super Bowl 55 winning coach or the coach that coached Peyton Manning to his 28 interceptions his rookie year?

As I want to take those 28 interceptions, because if you look at the second half of the season, they were almost all gone, and that next year we were 13 and three and they were all gone. And that learning process, you just got to just keep slinging it, you know? And I think Peyton's third or fourth week were down in the red zone.

And we're watching the tape and I said, dude, that's wide open in the NFL. It's about this big. And he said, what? I said that's his wide open. As you're going to get down here, you gotta be there, put it in there. And


00:24:13.000 — 00:24:15.000 · Speaker 2
obviously the record shows he did it.


00:24:15.840 — 00:24:18.160 · Speaker 3
Yeah that that right there I love.


00:24:18.160 — 00:25:06.870 · Speaker 1
That because when I think about coaching I mean there's so many elements of it. But just having the ability to change someone's perspective, just as simple as that. As like in college, I've seen enough college football to know, like open and college football means you probably have 3 to 4, sometimes five yard box around you versus the NFL.

It is a window. Truly. When they say a window, it is a window. And so being able to reorient someone's perspective around what open is at the NFL like that is just huge. And being able to recognize that. Thank you for sharing that. That was cool. I read another story about when you became the offensive coordinator with the Steelers, about how you immediately challenged Ben Roethlisberger.

And so what were the things that you saw, like as you were the wide receiver coach? First, you guys won a Super Bowl when you were the wide receiver coach, and then you obviously won another one as the as the OC. But what were some things that you saw that he needed to improve, and how did you challenge him to get there.


00:25:07.870 — 00:25:51.700 · Speaker 2
Just a little bit more ownership when when he came in as a rookie, we had a great defense and Jerome Bettis in a running game. And he just if he just handled third down in the red zone for us he we won 15 in a row. That's that's the type of team we had. I just wanted to see him grow and take a little more accountability and ownership of the offense.

We changed a lot of terminology to simplify it for the rookies. And we used to have this battle where I let him call plays and I would call plays. I think he sabotaged me. Who was going to score first when he was calling, when I was going to call him. And there's very few guys I gave that trust to tell you, take the no huddle offense and go with it, and we want to run the ball and here's your runs you're probably going to get to.

And he was he was masterful at it. He was very very very good at it.


00:25:52.860 — 00:26:21.380 · Speaker 1
So speaking of that, like when you give him the give him the keys to the offense, say, hey, two minute offense, whatever it is, or in certain situations you give them the keys. They have the freedom to make those those calls. How did you handle it? Coach them on the backside when it didn't work, like when they risked and they failed and they cost the team the game when I mean 910 wins get you into the postseason.

And so every week is so important. What were those conversations like where you didn't crush their spirit to keep that no risk it no biscuit mentality.


00:26:21.580 — 00:27:19.400 · Speaker 2
Yeah same with it. Why. You know why. Why did what were you thinking? And tell me the truth. And I love the matchup. I thought Hines had this guy. I thought San Antonio had that guy, and I was going to I was going to put it in there. And again, I bet he should have been MVP in Super Bowl 43. That last drive, 92 yards it was with with Hines who couldn't even run.

He was he was on a bad knee. He was just a decoy. Nate Washington had separated his shoulder. He couldn't catch. He had he had Santonio Holmes on Heath Miller and checked out and that was it. And he pump fake pump fake his Santonio pump fake his Santonio. And we go down and we win that ball game that everybody talks about the catch.

And it was a great catch. But that that throw might be 1 in 1,000,000. It was the first Reed was a flat. The second reed was Hines. I want to go backside. I think I could get it to Tony. He makes that unbelievable throw through three defenders and he just puts his hands up. Touchdown. We win the Super Bowl. That to me speaks of his greatness.


00:27:20.640 — 00:27:22.040 · Speaker 1
Wow. Yeah that was


00:27:23.200 — 00:27:28.550 · Speaker 1
you just brought up. I mean, I live in Phoenix, so you imagine how I felt watching it on this side, right?


00:27:28.590 — 00:27:32.270 · Speaker 2
I know, but I never wore that ring out in Phoenix when I was the head coach for the Cardinals. Right?


00:27:33.710 — 00:27:40.750 · Speaker 1
I mean, that's such a that's such a cool story. How many times did they practice that? Throw that back at the end zone?


00:27:41.430 — 00:28:19.310 · Speaker 2
Yeah, probably from training camp all the way to the Super Bowl every week and and warm ups obviously down there there's no wind. But we'd go out pregame and we'd take those fades down in the end zone in every different stadium. We're at all four corners to see what the stadium to acclimate to that stadium, because they were always so different.

How do you remember Ron Jaworski? You always tell me about when they played at the vet. They'd open up the doors so the wind would come out. Right at the end of the game. They'd open up the tunnel down into one end. So especially if the opposing team was coming that way and the wind was just knocked the ball down in that corner of that end zone.

And those, those, those are those tricky home field advantages.


00:28:19.870 — 00:28:40.340 · Speaker 1
Oh, it's so smart. I love that so much. That's such a cool. Such a cool little tidbit of information. Thank you for sharing that. When? When you think about coaching a rookie quarterback like a Peyton Manning or an Andrew Luck versus a veteran quarterback like a Carson Palmer or Tom Brady, do you approach them differently?

Like talk us through kind of how you approach a rookie versus a veteran?


00:28:40.500 — 00:29:40.839 · Speaker 2
Yeah. You got the young guy. You kind of mold them and they lived through to the mistakes. The veteran guys already have a feel for what they like, and then it's a meshing of ideas. Now here's what we like. Here's what you like. This is how we can blend it all together. Carson was fantastic. And I mean maybe the best deep ball thrower I've ever seen.

And and for him, it was okay. I'm going to ask you to do some things post snap that you haven't done a lot of. And he really got hooked into virtual reality. And we bought the system where he could. He put it in his house so he could watch all the practices live with a headset on of our team practice in the blitz drills and everything.

On Friday night. And we didn't have it for Peyton. And then Tom didn't really like it that much. He tried it and Tom was at a situation in his career. All right, this is how we do it. This is how you do it. Let's meet in the middle. Let's meet in the middle. The biggest thing for Tom was put it down the field


00:29:41.840 — 00:30:15.040 · Speaker 2
for me. Put it down the fit. Don't miss that. That match up we talked about you know I know first downs are great but it's hard to take eight or 9 or 10 first downs and go get points every week in the National Football League. You need chunk plays. You need you need that that explosive play to score a lot of points.

And Tom did a fantastic job without any. We had no OTAs that year and no preseason games. That was crazy with Covid. And so it was it was it was very hard on him and me and Byron Leftwich, who did a fantastic job of running the whole offense that year.


00:30:16.080 — 00:30:28.110 · Speaker 1
Man. Yeah, that was a wild year. I definitely remember that. I was in San Francisco at the time, so we were in our bubble out there, playing in front of no fans, spitting in tubes every day. Doing the whole stuff was ridiculous. I didn't even think about. But


00:30:29.270 — 00:30:50.990 · Speaker 1
I wonder, can, can you, can you teach people to take more risk, or is it something that you draft for that you're assessing in at the combine or in interviews before you sign a free agent, whatever it may be like? Is it something that they already have to have, or have you found that you've had success teaching people to take more risks that are really conservative?


00:30:51.430 — 00:31:36.580 · Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it's easy once you see it, why it's looking for we're not just going to throw it the fade just because we have a one on one fade. We call it a double bump. Fade a slight fade. Not everybody's going to win. There are times that no we're not going to take that. We're going to get this first down. Oh it's Mike Evans or it's Chris Godwin.

And we got the matchup on the nickel not to start in the corner. Now I'm now gonna really look at that. And I still have my outlets to come to that are going to be coming in my eyes. And so. Nope, don't like it. I get it down and get the first down. But let's just, you know, and to me that's not taking a risk. That's just smart football.

And that that's the way you teach it. This isn't risky. This this is what our game plan for. This is what we're looking for in a game to get those chunk plays.


00:31:38.380 — 00:32:57.730 · Speaker 1
That's that's good. I love how you brought that up, that this isn't risky. It reminds me of this. There's this crazy study in baseball. You know how it is. Like, you know, there's all these things and you're looking at it. But one thing we were looking at was like, risk taking behavior. And one of the riskiest behaviors you can take in baseball is, is stealing a base because you're already on base.

Why go risk 90ft to make an out, right? As rare as hits and walks are. And what they found was, and this probably one of the most fascinating things I ever read, that when they looked at sets of brothers that had both played in the major leagues in every situation, now this was like 7 or 8 years ago, so maybe it's changed since now, but in every situation up until then, the younger brother had always attempted more stolen bases than the older brother, which is right in line with all the research.

We know that generally younger siblings take more risk than their older siblings because they don't view it as risk. They're just like, oh, I have to play up. I have to play with these big, strong kids or or whatever. So it's really kind of fascinating. Um, I love how you describe it. It's like, yeah, it wasn't that risky.

It's just smart football. So, uh, I see that. Was there ever a time where a game, a specific decision where you didn't remain true to no risk at no biscuit and it got you beat and it just grinds you, man. Where you think back there, you're like, man, I didn't stay true to who I was. Did you ever have that moment?


00:32:57.770 — 00:33:03.450 · Speaker 2
Yeah, we had one. And it's like, oh still haunts me to this day. You know? It's like,


00:33:04.730 — 00:33:50.709 · Speaker 2
but still you're trusting something. You're trusting your defense. Sure. It's this much. We punt it down. Trust the defense. Lo and behold, we get a penalty boom! And we lose the ball game. I should have went for it. That'll. That'll haunt you for a while. But but then again, there's that trust factor and the defensive coaches and the defensive players.

John Devon God bless him. When I was the head coach at temple, he walked off the field. He said, coach, can we ever leave practice when the defense wins? Because I was I was the head coach. Offensive coordinator, quarterback, coach. I'd be pissed off to kick their ass. We stayed out there all day to the offense one and it's like, oh, I learned a lot from him and the older coaches I had on my staff when I was young about


00:33:52.070 — 00:34:24.179 · Speaker 2
sharing the wealth. Everybody needs to win. The kicker needs to he needs to win a practice one day. We always end up OTAs. We got one more practice to go. All right. Put it on 52 yard field goal. If he makes it, we're not practicing tomorrow. It's the end of spring. And put the kicker in that situation too. And I always have somebody jump offsides just in case I'd coach.

I'd coach one guy to jump offsides on defense case he missed it so he'd get another kick if he if he missed that one. And the next one. He wasn't our kicker the next day anyway.


00:34:25.540 — 00:34:47.419 · Speaker 1
There you go. Oh that's brilliant. That's brilliant. Just a couple more here. I've enjoyed this so much. What would you say? I mean, you've been around tons of coaches, all different levels from college, obviously all the way through the NFL. You've seen a lot of different leaders. What do you think? What do you think leaders most misunderstand about risk?


00:34:49.700 — 00:34:51.700 · Speaker 2
That it really is at risk.


00:34:52.980 — 00:35:08.860 · Speaker 2
It's being smart. I always say play smart, not scared. And to me that that's that's really no risk at no biscuit. It's play smart not scared. And like that like that poem says, man, you can't be afraid to throw your hat in the ring.


00:35:10.140 — 00:35:47.330 · Speaker 1
Yeah that's that. That if poem by Rudyard Kipling. The first time I ever saw that was from Bobby Clarke, who was the men's soccer coach at Notre Dame. And I did not attend. Notre Dame was not even near close enough to be smart enough to attend there, but I did work there for a year and doing a mental performance.

And the one part that he always highlighted was, can you meet with defeat and victory and treat those impostors the same? And how we can't let that result, good or bad, distract from what we're trying to do. And I've shared that poem a lot with athletes along the way for sure.


00:35:47.370 — 00:35:51.850 · Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that people that poem should be in every playbook, in every sport there is.


00:35:53.050 — 00:36:00.090 · Speaker 1
That's a good call. I mean, it's it's it's fantastic. In fact, after this, I'm actually going to go read it to see how bad I butchered that part. I just told you it was pretty good.


00:36:00.130 — 00:36:00.890 · Speaker 2
That's pretty good.


00:36:01.170 — 00:36:27.830 · Speaker 1
I gotta check it out. Well, coach, this is the final question that we ask every guest on the No Show Dogs podcast. Because a no show dog mentality is just it's about the work, right? It's not about not trying to look good. I'm just trying to be good and put that work in. And it's about doing things that others aren't willing to do.

And so with that being said, when you reflect on your career up to this point, what do you think have been some of the things that you've been willing to do that maybe others haven't, that has helped you have such an incredible coaching career?


00:36:28.670 — 00:38:21.290 · Speaker 2
Yeah, I think I had a very, very safe job when Coach Bryant retired at Alabama. I was Ray Perkins offered me the quarterback job to stay at Alabama. I was 30 years old, but I took the head coaching job at Temple University in Philadelphia, and it's a hard, hard job. But as Coach Brown said, so you want to be a head coach.

That's my goal. He said, well, hell, you might never get another opportunity and you're going to get this one, because I just talked to the guy and you got the job and it's like, okay, I'm 30. I think I know everything. I really don't know anything. But I was smart enough to take Paul Davis, who was 66 years old and was the head coach at Mississippi State back in 61 and shook Jordan's defensive coordinator for 15 years.

As my defensive coordinator, I kind of saw where the college football landscape was heading defensively with all the trips and emotions, and he used to run the tilt tackle wide six. And I want that defense and I want you to teach it to a young guy for me. And many days I sit there with my head on the desk. He looked over and said, sir, you wanted to be a head coach, huh?

And I just you lean on those guys, you know? And the best pay it forward moment for me in my life. I got kicked out of high school. Day after football season, my senior year. And only one man kept recruiting me. That was John Devlin. And John was working for the Houston Oilers during the boom and the bust. And they got fired and he went bankrupt.

And I got to hire him as my take Paul's place as assistant head coach and defensive coordinator. And man, I really, really leaned on Daddy Dove for a lot of things as a young coach. And I think these young coaches today get lost in the fact that you didn't get there by yourself. You need somebody to take along with you that you can vent to.

You can't vent to a young coach. You can come home and tell his wife, and she's going to tell everybody but you. You got that old coach. You can go in and just let it all hang out. And I think so many guys miss that.


00:38:22.410 — 00:38:47.690 · Speaker 1
Man, that's so good. Coach, this has been so fun. So insightful. Just fun to hear how you think about the game. Fun. How fun. And really insightful how you think about leadership and leading others. And and I just love how it's just play smart, not scared. Super simple. Right? And I just appreciate you sharing that with us today.

And just look forward to how you're going to continue to impact those coaches at the National Coaching Academy going forward.


00:38:47.730 — 00:38:49.530 · Speaker 2
Appreciate your feedback. Thank you brother.


00:38:49.650 — 00:39:34.870 · Speaker 1
Absolutely, man. Hey, if you want to hear a little more from Bruce Arians, head on over to our Instagram page at no. Show dogs to hear how he responded to our three and out questions, but in true, no risk it. No biscuit form. We went for it. We went for it on fourth down and we asked a fourth question. Here's what you're going to hear.

You'll hear how he answered. What was the riskiest play call he ever made? What he sees in someone right away that indicates that they have great leadership ability. What separates a good quarterback from a great quarterback? And then for our fourth down question, our fourth question. Look. It's so rare to find coaches that actually worked with the legendary Bear Bryant.

So we had to ask, what would Bear Bryant say about the state of football today?


00:39:35.950 — 00:39:56.630 · Speaker 1
And lastly, I just want to say thank you. Thank you to you. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you to those of you that have left five star ratings and are just helping us grow this podcast by sharing it with others. We just get so fired up by seeing so many of you making that investment in yourself and your own development, so you can make those around you better.

Now go out and make it a great day.